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I dont like their description, but if we are talking language, and making the comparison. It's not like the stock ecu speaks in a foreign language, or that a flash would change it from Spanish to English.

Kawasaki builds this bike and tunes it to a degree of perfection that we cant even imagine. Altitude, temperature, poor fuel...all factored in.

They invest hundreds of thousands of dollars to tune these bikes. Great. Now the bike needs to be tuned with regards to the Euro standards. The USA bikes get this, as well as having to comply with California standards, too.

So, the stock ecu speaks a language, but when it talks, it sounds like it has someone's [email protected] in its mouth. A ecu flash removes the [email protected] and let's it perform the way Kawasaki wanted it to, without regards to emissuons... or restrictions placed by the legal department.

I have no idea why they didnt use my description?
 

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I dont like their description, but if we are talking language, and making the comparison. It's not like the stock ecu speaks in a foreign language, or that a flash would change it from Spanish to English.

Kawasaki builds this bike and tunes it to a degree of perfection that we cant even imagine. Altitude, temperature, poor fuel...all factored in.

They invest hundreds of thousands of dollars to tune these bikes. Great. Now the bike needs to be tuned with regards to the Euro standards. The USA bikes get this, as well as having to comply with California standards, too.

So, the stock ecu speaks a language, but when it talks, it sounds like it has someone's dick in its mouth. A ecu flash removes the dick and let's it perform the way Kawasaki wanted it to, without regards to emissuons... or restrictions placed by the legal department.
J
I have no idea why they didnt use my description?
Me neither, RC. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well rcannon that’s too bad. i had hoped that maybe you might offer some input on their comments in the article about snatchy throttle. think you’ve said in the past how the ivan tune really improved throttle response from the ecu.

Why do motorcycles have a snatchy throttle in the first place?
Long story and several intertwined reasons, but the biggest culprit is emissions regulations.

Without getting too side-tracked into the details of how engines work, the bottom line of making an engine’s exhaust gasses ‘clean’ enough to pass emissions tests is, firstly, make them clean only where the motor needs to be clean to pass the tests. If emissions tests aren’t at full throttle and top speed (which they aren’t), then there’s no point engineering an engine to be clean under those conditions. It’s a waste of money and perfectly good bhp.

But if emissions tests are conducted at low speeds and revs, at partial throttle openings – usually simulating town riding, where pollution is the biggest problem – then that’s where the manufacturers put their efforts to make their engines ‘clean’.

The next step in making a clean engine is to make it a lean engine. A lean-running engine is one using a relatively high ratio of air to fuel – it means more of the fuel is burned, and more completely, and less gets into the exhaust and the outside world. The opposite – a rich-running engine – is using a lower ratio of air to fuel; it’s got more petrol in the mixture. Simple.

Except it’s not. Lean-running engines have lots of potential problems – they run hot, engine wear is more likely, combustion is harder to manage, and mixture ratio is critical to avoid engine damage. But none of these are insurmountable and they’re cleaner than rich-running engines, where fuel is sloshed merrily around to prevent these, and other, issues arising.

Another issue with a lean-running engine is managing fine throttle control. When an engine is running with a richer mixture, the transitions between fine degrees of throttle control are blurred and blended; the edges are rounded off. In a lean motor, those blurry transitions become sharp and angular – translating as an inconsistent, unpredictable or snatchy throttle.

I like to think of a rich (or normally fuelled) engine as a big, well-fed tiger. Offer it some fresh throttle meat and it’ll lazily take it from you. A lean-running engine is like a starving tiger – offer it some fresh throttle meat and it’ll have your hand off.

But it’s not just lean-running that causes a snatchy throttle. Another method of reducing dirty exhaust gas is to advance ignition – that means bring forward the point in the engine cycle where the spark plug actually sparks. Doing this extends the length of time the air/fuel mix has to burn inside the combustion chamber. Which means it burns more completely, which in turn makes exhaust gas cleaner. Unfortunately, advanced ignition also means the engine tends to feel over-responsive, so even small throttle openings result in a sudden take-up of drive.

The last reason modern bikes have snatchy throttles is the craziest. Hard to believe on a new bike, but some of them simply aren’t very good; the manufacturer hasn’t spent enough time (or money, or both) developing the mapping, and/or giving it sufficient fidelity or sophistication to be able to track a rider’s miniscule throttle position demands. Or the engineers simply put numbers in the maps that get the bike through an emissions test but, frankly, leave it fairly unpleasant to ride.

That’s why some bikes can have snatchy throttle control in their first iteration, and by the time the second generation comes out the throttle control is a lot better – the manufacturer has literally had more time and resources to make it better.

Throttle snatch varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. For example, KTM and Yamaha’s throttle mapping tends to be crude, while BMW and Ducati’s throttle mapping is more detailed and consequently much better
 

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Where i work, we are required to have a security clearance. 99.9% of what we do is nothing that would ever need to be kept secret...and maybe even 100%, but we are asked to be quiet because I dont really know what is classified, and what is not, and what step went over the line.

Ivan had his own software built and it is able to access an ecu at a much deeper level than the software flash kits that are available. I dont know what the cost was, but I get the feeling he spent enough to where he could have bought a machine shop, especially once a dyno was figured in.

For that reason, I wont discuss specific things I have heard. It isnt my place to do so. Ivan will, and he answers his phone during business hours. He is also a perfectionist. He sometimes updates his flashes. It's no charge for the upgrade, just postage. What I know, today, might not even be accurate, next week.

One of the most interesting things I learned was that correct fueling was a small part of the overall flash. Crazy, but true. You can have 100% perfect fueling, but unless the fuel cut, timing restrictions, throttle restrictions, mistakes, oversights, etc are fixed, the bike feels like a piece of .crap. It wasnt always about being lean. My ninja haspd as much fuel removed as it did added. The catalytic converters let them get by with murder when it comes to burning fuel.

But, when anyone changes these specs, they dont make the ecu speak a different language. It is more like teaching it to speak properly, and always use the correct words.

It is 100% fascinating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
okay, you don’t like they way they tried to simplify the ecu vs module definition. i don’t think their actual description is incorrect. overall the article in itself i found helpful, then again i did read everything start to finish. just thought others might find it useful who might be interested in the solution. no worries. 🐒

What’s a remap and what’s a module?
They’re two different methods trying to achieve the same thing – that is, adapting the ECU’s behaviour to suit us.
  • Re-mapping is unlocking the pre-programmed software inside the ECU, accessing the various maps, and altering the numerical values to change the instructions the ECU sends out (it can also switch off various limiters and alter other parameters, and tell the ECU not to panic and show a fault code if it spots something out-of-spec).
  • A module takes a different approach – it sits alongside the ECU and hijacks either the signals from the sensor inputs to the ECU, the output signals from the ECU to the engine, or both, and modifies them to give the instructions we want to give. It also has to ‘tell’ the ECU that nothing’s wrong to stop it showing a fault code.
An easy way to think of it is this: remapping is like having a foreign language downloaded into your brain so you can speak it fluently, while a module is like walking around with a translator instead.

What is an ECU reflash? | From remaps to modules like the Power Commander and Rapid Bike, what is really possible? Motorcycle tuning explained

Riding the clutch to try to smooth out an aggressive engine could be a sign you need a remap…
 

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Not like I'm offended, or bothered...just something to talk about, really. Nothing directed at you.

It's a shady business since the basic flash software is easy to get. For about 700.00, I could start selling flashes that would be an improvement over what the stock bike offers.

Most use the same software , with the same level of access.
 

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Zee, it's worth warning people about how many scam artists there are, in this field.

For under 1000, I could buy a set of cables, and software to start flashing your bikes.

If I sign up for the right package, I could charge you guys 300.....I keep 150, and the cable/software supplier get the other. Or , give them more and I can license this ,over time, and flash as many bikes as I want to.

The thing is, I can download the map from their map share. I would be selling you something I may have never tried....its insane.

Let's say I do this, but I disappear. You decide you want a real flash, with a real tune. This might not be possible as I could have changed rhe original password in your ecu. Any real tuner might be locked out. Your choice would be to give up, or buy a new ecu.

Be careful. Look for real dyno charts and real web pages. Look for real reviews across multiple forums. Look at the tuners other work. Watch out for YouTube videos that promise everything. A good tuner will be proud of their results, and not be afraid to back them up.

High hp numbers are easy to get. Removing restrictions and improving throttle quality isn't so easy.

Ii mention this because we just had a member who was basically stolen from, over on the Ninja 1000 forum. At a casual glance, he appeared to gain 14 horsepower. When you dig deeper, that 14 gain was based on an I intial run where his bike made 107 horsepower.

No, no two dynos will read exactly the same, but unless someone is cheating, the results will be similar. Within a few percentage points similar.
 
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