[zee monkey]

So I should get my Nitron shock here in the next couple weeks and it has the hydraulic preload adjuster but I didn’t get the remote reservoir. i ride 95% Street most of time right now with some canyon carving on weekends so I didn’t think I really needed it. I’m not touring on the bike or riding off road. I think it’s a better overall shock design to have it it’s just a matter of cost. here is some basic resovoir info i found useful.

Remote Reservoir Shock Absorbers Explained | Superior Engineering

Michael Hayes talks about remote reservoir shocks for your 4WD. They are designed with an external reservoir that increases fluid capacity. Read full article.

www.superiorengineering.com.au

Kawasaki Motorcycles Shocks- Nitron USA

www.nitronracingshocks.com

 

[Ampy]

Cheers zm
Interesting ...always wondered what the reservoir does

 

[Ungarisch]

Cheers zm
Interesting ...always wondered what the reservoir does

Shocks heat up with use, when they do the oil thins out (especially if it's old oil), thinner oil flows through the restriction passages faster and thus changes the shock's damping characteristics as it heats up and as you ride, not something you want. You want the shock to keep consistent regardless whether you just hopped on the bike or at the end of your riding session. A a reservoir type shock will contain a lot more fluid then a regular emulsion shock. More fluid takes longer to heat up, and also having the oil outside of the shock body (and inside an aluminum canister) will cool it much better.

But like you said for street/commuter use, this makes little difference to the average rider. Even at the track, I dont ever feel my shock's reservoir heating up to maybe +5*F more than ambient. I think where it makes the most difference is in off-road applications where the shock is really having a workout.

For road racing use, the advantage for a reservoir shock comes in at the valving size. On an emulsion shock the valving can only be so big because it has to fit within the shock body, which limits you to only low speed damping circuit. On a reservoir shock you move the valving outside the body, onto the canister, allowing you to make larger valves that have more impactful effects over damping changes and somewhat negate the oil thinning issue (though not completely). Also the canister allow for room to put in a high speed damping circuit that bypasses the low speed damping during harder hits. This makes a huge difference in plushness both on, but especially off-road.

 

[zee monkey]

Shocks heat up with use, when they do the oil thins out (especially if it's old oil), thinner oil flows through the restriction passages faster and thus changes the shock's damping characteristics as it heats up and as you ride, not something you want. You want the shock to keep consistent regardless whether you just hopped on the bike or at the end of your riding session. A a reservoir type shock will contain a lot more fluid then a regular emulsion shock. More fluid takes longer to heat up, and also having the oil outside of the shock body (and inside an aluminum canister) will cool it much better.

But like you said for street/commuter use, this makes little difference to the average rider. Even at the track, I dont ever feel my shock's reservoir heating up to maybe +5*F more than ambient. I think where it makes the most difference is in off-road applications where the shock is really having a workout.

For road racing use, the advantage for a reservoir shock comes in at the valving size. On an emulsion shock the valving can only be so big because it has to fit within the shock body, which limits you to only low speed damping circuit. On a reservoir shock you move the valving outside the body, onto the canister, allowing you to make larger valves that have more impactful effects over damping changes and somewhat negate the oil thinning issue (though not completely). Also the canister allow for room to put in a high speed damping circuit that bypasses the low speed damping during harder hits. This makes a huge difference in plushness both on, but especially off-road.

So when you say the ride is more plush at what speeds are you going? Riding over a bump at 60 mph might be a plush ride with an emulsion type shock, but at 160 mph you get a much harder hit and say it’s not plush. i’m just saying speed is relative. Really I just want the back of my bike to ride like a Cadillac and I am just looking for really the best soft ride I can get without sacrificing too much on performance if I don’t have to. Nitron says for a few more dollars they can add the resovoir to my r1 shock.

 

[Ungarisch]

So when you say the ride is more plush at what speeds are you going? Riding over a bump at 60 mph might be a plush ride with an emulsion type shock, but at 160 mph you get a much harder hit and say it’s not plush. i’m just saying speed is relative. Really I just want the back of my bike to ride like a Cadillac and I am just looking for really the best soft ride I can get without sacrificing too much on performance if I don’t have to. Nitron says for a few more dollars they can add the resovoir to my r1 shock.

I really hope you don't hit a huge bump at 160mph as that might not end well regardless of what shock you have. Just from my experience, the stock shock was quite firm a cruising speeds, while driving into my driveway it would completely bottom out to the point where the swingarm spools would hit and damage the exhaust, and this was with the sag set correctly. With the aftermarket shock, while not a Cadillac ride, the high frequency undulations are way smoother than the stock shock, while it has never once bottomed out in the same manner as the stock shock.

If you were local I would say come and try my bike out, there is definitely a noticeable difference. In fact, I would say that there is a way bigger difference going from stock shock to aftermarket, than there is going from stock fork to aftermarket cartridges.

 

[Ungarisch]

I want to put this video in the thread as it does explain the different shock designs and adjustments parameters quite good.

 

[zee monkey]

I certainly respect his attitude towards wanting to put out a quality product versus making the bean counters happy. cool video thanks for posting that. I thought it was interesting he was saying that low speed compression how it’s related to tire grip in wet and dry conditions. there certainly are plenty of knobs to turn in to have fun with that’s for sure. I’m still waiting on my nitron shock. Like the man said the checks in the mail...

 

[zee monkey]

finally showed up.

 

[jimz]

Nice, and I love the KR500

 

[zee monkey]

interesting bike for sure. Definitely thinking out of the box.

Kawasaki KR500 Grand Prix Motorcycles | A Short History | Motorcycle News, Sport and Reviews

www.mcnews.com.au

 

[Ungarisch]

I have just removed my shocks to send it out to get rebuilt. Literally took 10 minutes to take it out and put the stocker back in to use in the meantime. Love how easy it is on this bike. On my supermoto I had to take the whole subframe off.

While I was at the track on friday, the shock lost nearly all damping ability. I did notice some weeping on the shock shaft, which means the seal has worn and is letting in air, and thus the losing its ability to dampen the stroke. You can tell when this happens if your adjustment clicker stop being clicky, that means there is air in the shock. Hopefully I can get it back within the next 2-3 weeks as I really dont wanna ride around on the stock shock, at all.

This is I kind of why I now wish I would have bought the Penske shock instead. The Penske can be rebuilt by any local shop in a matter of a few days and doesn't have to be sent out to a specialist. If anyone is interested in my shock after I get it back from a rebuilt, I may sell it so that I can get the Penske so that next time I blow my shock I can have it rebuilt by the trackside suspension guy right there at the track.

This is what happens when your shock blows and you loose your dampening on the rear. Exiting out of corners, rather than your wheel following the road surface, it hops and stutters over it, thus allowing your tire to momentarily lose traction and spin up and start shredding. Initially I thought it was cold/hot tear, but went to see the trackside suspension guy, he measure the tire temperature with the pokey thing and it was at 165 which about what it should be, he then checked my rebound settings and that's when he noticed that my shock was completely blown. I'm kinda happy he noticed it because I was really pushing that day and it could have ended in disaster. If I was on less grippy, more street oriented tires, I probably would have high sided.

 

[rcannon]

That sucks. I'm sure the rebuild will fix it, for good. This had to be a one-off thing, right? You are right about the Penske being easy to rebuild. We could do it in my garage.Nitrogen and all.

The Penske also has a length adjust feature that's really easy to use. I cant tell if your Nitron does, or not.

 

[Ungarisch]

That sucks. I'm sure the rebuild will fix it, for good. This had to be a one-off thing, right? You are right about the Penske being easy to rebuild. We could do it in my garage.Nitrogen and all.

The Penske also has a length adjust feature that's really easy to use. I cant tell if your Nitron does, or not.

I'm OK with it lasting this long. I fully understand that race parts don't really last as long as stock parts do, so not really an issue, tho being without a decent shock for 2-3 weeks while it's out for a refresh is a bummer. If it was an Ohlins or Penske part, my regular suspension guy could have rebuilt it pretty much right then and there. He said he probably could still rebuild it because all the seals are pretty generic/universal from one manufacturer to another, but didn't wanna take it apart and then find out he needed to order something specific from the Netherlands that wasn't interchangeable with what he had. So I sent it off to the US Yacugar/Wilbers/TracTive/Hyperpro distributor to get it rebuilt since I figured they should have everything necessary for it.

It was due for an oil changes anyways, along with a stiffer spring to compensate from my Covid gains.

RC, I know you got a Penske, if you ever want to try new things... I got a freshly rebuilt Yacugar triple adjustable shock with your name on it, for your Penske that is..

 

[rcannon]

It would be fun to try all of them. I have quite a bit of experience with revalved, dirt bike shocks, but not that much with streetbike shocks. My Penske doesnt do anything wrong.

How many mikes/years did your shock last before the seal let go?

 

[Ungarisch]

It would be fun to try all of them. I have quite a bit of experience with revalved, dirt bike shocks, but not that much with streetbike shocks. My Penske doesnt do anything wrong.

How many mikes/years did your shock last before the seal let go?

Shock is about 4 years old, maybe a little over 6k miles on it total, but that's a guess... I would say 70% of that was on track and 30% in the canyons. While the track is not any bumpier than the street, the shock gets more of an exercise on the track as it does go through the full lenght of it's stroke constantly as compared to riding on the street. It was definitely due for an oil change service anyways, and usually at that point since you have it all apart you might as well replace the seals anyways. Racing shocks should be serviced on a seasonal basis anyways, and if I would have done that (or at least semi-seasonally), with the fresh oil in it the seals could have lasted longer probably.

 

[rcannon]

I always enjoyed working on the shock for my dirt bike. It's pretty much just a long travel, piggyback shock. I liked doing it, myself, as I could take several hours to bleed it to perfection. Sure, it made no difference, but it was fun.

The process surprised me, I think, just because the shock was simple. Very few parts, yet it worked really well.

You could drive yourself to drink with the revalving process. The shims, oil and nitrogen cost was cheap and there was always a way to make it "better".

 

[zee monkey]

Finally got the rear shock installed on the bike. The bolts went in super easy and I didn’t have to put any anti-seize on them to help with the initial threading. I still have to double check/set the rider SAG adjustments. I didn’t see any locations on the hydraulic line where it looked like it rubs on the frame but I’m gonna have to keep an eye on that just to make sure. for now though I’m going to claim a small victory.

 

[jimz]

looking good Z

 

[Ungarisch]

Looking at the lock nuts at the bottom of the shock, it looks like you got the adjustable shock length option. Are you planning on changing the bike's ride height?

 

[zee monkey]

I still need to check and set the rider sag. It could be perfect out of the box but I imagine it will need some adjustment. I plan to set the rider sag the same for both front and rear. The shock length is fixed, all I’m adjusting is preload and rebound.